5x5: Black Moon Interview

Thank you, gentlemen, for being here to talk about Enta Da Stage, which is a really, very important album in the history of hip hop. Maybe even folks who weren’t around at the time, in 1993, don’t necessarily understand the impact of this album. They may just know it as great music, but I think it’s a lot more than that. And, if you guys could, as we start out, if you could just talk about what you think the significance of the album is.

5ft

Yo, well I think that when we put the album together, a lot of hard work and dedication and passion was put into that, you know what I’m saying, and we didn’t know, well I didn’t know that it would have the impact that it’s had over the years since we put out the album. And I’m real grateful for that, you know.

Buckshot

The album came out in 93. Before that was the single “Who Got the Props?” And for that time, the word independent probably was so far from even thought of. There were a few independents out there. But to make the impact that a major made was definitely not put on the map really at that time. So, when we came out with “Who Got the Props?”, nobody knew who we were. They didn’t know what label we came out of, they didn’t know, you know, things of that nature. So, they just knew that they liked this record “Who Got the Props?” and a lot of people played it and that was cool for us, cuz it put us on a pedestal where as long as you got good music then you can achieve what you need to achieve. And then later, Enta Da Stage was made on the same independent label. So it was of real significance for hip hop at the time, because primarily it was just known for having major labels you know, and if it was independent like Cold Chillin’ or, you know, it was still through Warner Bros. We was through a house label straight up and down the area.

Right, yeah, cuz tell everyone who may not know, Nervous was not known for hip hop at all at that time.

Evil Dee

Nah, Nervous was known for house music and disco classics. Like they had Nervous, Slash and Sam records, and Sam records put out a lot of classic joints, like the Evasions and, um the break beat “I Can’t Stop”, you know.

Yeah they had a lot of disco and boogie and stuff like that. Wasn’t, like, Michael, who ran the label, his family was in the business.

Buckshot

The Weisses were pretty famous. Acutally, Barry Weiss is still the owner of Jive Records. So the Weisses were players in the music industry. We were fortunate to get a record deal at the time by Michael Weiss, put it like that.

Now, can you talk a little bit about the importance of this record to New York? From my recollection, circa like ‘92 or so you know it was pretty much West Coast. The Chronic had come out and Snoop was about it to drop as well. It was, you know, the stigma about New York was, “Well, you know, they make okay records, but they’re more artsy, or they’re more on the Native Tongues tip”, whereas this album came out and had a real power to it.

Buckshot

I mean when this album came out, it embodied the personality and the people that made it. Which is us, as Evil Dee, 5ft and myself. When you put all of us together as a unit, you get the elements that was in the album. E being heavily influenced by old records, you know what I’m saying, old funk, old jazz loops, stuff like that. 5ft and myself being prior dancers before picking up a mic.

5ft

So, we was absorbed by the music for a very long time you know what I’m saying. You know I could go recollect when my moms had two turntables and a mic in the house when I was like seven, six years old, with the speakers and the crates. So, being embodied into that element, and growing up into that element, and appreciating music period, you know have an opportunity to be a part of hip hop and expressing it is extraordinary.

Buckshot

See, a lot of people would say the New York vibe at the time was pure artsy or whatever, and the West Coast music that came out was pure gangster you know, street, gangsta, yo, straight up and down bang music, you know what I mean. People were saying New York music is primarily known for, like, they would associate more Tribe and De La to New York, because they were saying New York is that quote unquote conscious stuff and we do more unconscious stuff. You know, that gangster stuff is more unconscious you know. So, when Black Moon came out with Enta Da Stage, it really changed the playing field, because as the individual I embody everything. I come from Franklin Avenue, we all come from the hood. We grew up on the block, grew up in different parts of Brooklyn, Coney Island, Franklin Avenue, Bushwick, you know. And then at the same time we conscious because we grew up in an Islamic environment, as well. At the same time, we’re culturally conscious so, we’ve put all that in our music and we fought back with the attitude of when you listen to Enta Da Stage, you hear consciousness, you hear street stuff, you know what I’m saying, street, hardcore, dudes that don’t play, conscious, aware and positive at the time. So, we sent out a different message that we positive dudes that don’t play no games, and that’s the bottom line, You know what I’m saying. And that was really the truth of how we are, so we’re universal.

Evil Dee

One thing I wanted to say is, putting the album together basically my thing is from the music side, like they did all the lyrics. Me and Mr Walt did all the beats. Basically like you know, my thing with the beats was okay, you know, the West, me, I’ve traveled, I used to go to the West Coast in summertimes, and go stay with my aunt. The West Coast is all laid back, it’s all about funk funk, and that showed in their music. Over here, we on the train, just crowded. You know what I’m saying. We hitting the concrete, we doing what we gotta do. And that’s one of the things that was put into the music. Our everyday lifestyle, everyday function. Like yo, I was on the train, with my walkman, listening to, you know whatever was rocking at the time. And then I would go home and be like, okay, I heard uh, Gang Starr. “Just To Get A Rep” was crazy, or this record is crazy, and then I would go to the… there was a party back in the days where they used to play the beats.

Soul Kitchen?

Evil Dee

Soul Kitchen. They used to go to Soul Kitchen, then leave Soul Kitchen, go to D and T, no, at the time it was Calliope. Go to Calliope, and then work on the beats, know what I’m saying. And my brother, Walt, he made his beats like… me, I make my beats on the spot. Mr Walt, he made his beats at home. You know, with me I like the pressure. I like where Buck and 5 walk in and go, “We got these lyrics”, and I be like, “Word, I got the beat, give me five minutes, Imma look for it.” Come back in five minutes, I’d programmed something. That’s what this whole album reflected, basically, was me making beats up, that’s just it, you know what I’m saying.

I want to ask you guys a little bit about how the group came together. Because some folks may not even know that.

5ft

I moved to Bushwick in ‘86, and I went to a high school called Bushwick. That’s where I met Evil Dee. At the time I met him, he was DJing, he was doing music, he had a group called Unique Image, with my man Ali. Yeah, and we connected. At the time I was dancing. You know what I’m saying, so Ali was rhyming, I was dancing, so they ended up breaking up, so I was like being around him so much, son has so much records in his house. I ain’t never seen so much records like this in my life. And I’m a lover of music from growing up, being around it. We directly connected at that point, you know what I’m saying. And kept moving forward, and I kept dancing, still was DJing, then I went down to Virginia for a minute, and one day I called him, and said, “Yo, I’m coming back to New York, so when I get back, we’re going to connect.” So, when I got back, we connected, and during that journey, you know, dealing with music, he still was making beats, he still was DJing, he was throwing wild parties, house parties. Went carrying the records here, carrying the records there, mad crate, and all that. So, during this process, I had met Buck in Brownsville, in the centre, he was dancing, you know what I’m saying, so we kicked it for a minute. At that time, when he was dancing, he also told me what he wanted to do with the music. But, you know what I’m saying, that’s what made me connect on that level even more. So I ended up bringing him to Evil Dee’s crib. From that point forth the rest is history. And it became from that point forth, built up to what you got on Enta Da Stage.

Buckshot

Like he, when he brought me to E, I was walking out of, I was doing a show the next day for a talent show. And my man told me he couldn’t come, and so I was walking out of the centre, and I said, “Damn, I don’t have a partner, what am I gonna do?” And this other guy I had was real tall. So, when I was leaving out the center, I saw 5 was dancing to this music, I went back and I was like, “Dang he’s short!” I was like, you know, that’s hot. He can do it, and he’s nice to them like that. So, I walked back and I say, “Yo man, you nice!” I’m like, “Yo, word.” He was like “Yo, good looking, man.” I was like, “Word, you want to do this talent show?” And he was like, “Yo, I’m down.” So I was like, “Yo this stuff coming out, these beats, this music you listening to is hot! Where do you get this from?” And he was like, “My man actually made this,” and I was like, “WHAT?!” He said, “Yeah, Evil, you know, Evil Dee.” I was like, “You know somebody that made this stuff?” That’s when he brought me over to Evil Dee’s crib, and they say yo, even though Evil Dee had Black Moon with him and his brother, you know what I’m saying. And then, right there, they said, yo, let’s form Black Moon, and from right there Black Moon was born.

Evil Dee

Black Moon was actually Beatminerz’s original name. Mr Walt was a fan of Moonlighting. Now there’s a true story, too.

With Bruce Willis?

Evil Dee

Mr Walt was a fan of Moonlighting. And if he was here he would punch me in the face for saying that. But he, um, the name of their detective agency was Blue Moon Detective Agency. So, Walt just changed the Blue Moon to Black Moon. So Beatminerz’s original name was Black Moon. Then what happened was my brother had an MC. The MC’s name was DEA, and DEA went beat shopping with me and my brother. Me and my brother used to go beat shopping in east New York, in this basement filled with records, they just threw the records down there. It was wet, it was nasty, you see dead carcasses floating. Dead mice and dead rats, but we were being there digging for records, and we would come up looking crazy, looking like we was coal mining. So DEA was like, “Yo I’m gonna make y’all, y’all are the Beatminerz.” He had a song called “Beatminerz Walk Like That So Much”. He changed Black Moon’s name to Beatminerz, and that’s when Buckshot said, “Yo, we taking that name.” But, one thing I wanted to say is when Buck came to my house that first time, Buck walks into my house, and the first thing out of his mouth, not “Yo what’s up”, but, “Damn! You got a lot of records!” [laughs]

Buckshot

Never seen that many records, ever.

Evil Dee

And another thing is, 5, in school, when we was at Bushwick High School. There’s always that one dude that’s always dancing for no reason. That was 5ft. And it was ill because I was like, “Yo, 5 is the nicest dancer I ever seen.” And then he’d walk Buckshot along, like, don’t get it twisted, these two dudes can dance! They may be all laid back right now, but they get theirs on that dancefloor.

But that was the thing back then, every crew had dancers.

5ft

That was our connection to hip hop at that time, on the come up, you know what I’m saying, that’s how we were reflecting it at that time. And, you know, in reality we was trying to really do the dancing thing real hard. We had this thing where seriously we was trying to move in that direction, going toward, you know, dancing and doing choreography, and taking that really seriously.

Buckshot

And it’s ironic that Kane is here, because Scoob and Scrap, for us was like like to reach, to be able to reach Scoob and Scrap level was like an honour here. That’s all we wanted to do was wear those outfits that they wear.

Evil Dee

Yo, it was so wild, we would like go to clubs, and these two would disappear, would just start dancing. We’d be in clubs and I’d just be out, cuz I don’t dance, so I’d just be in the background, chilling, and everybody’d be like, “Yo, yo, those dudes is ill, who’s that, who’s that?” And I’d be like, “That’s Black Moon.”

Buckshot

That’s why with the music we’d do, with the album, every track that E gave us, in our heads, in me and 5’s heads, we were still dancing. We had to figure out somehow, some way to melodically dance to the music. If we could get, if we could, if it was grooving, then we alright.

So when did it, how did you turn the corner, go from focusing on dancing to MCing?

Buckshot

One day we did this show for I think it was a parks department at the time. I mean, that was the first time someone had every paid us to do a performance. I was like, “This is money, to do what we like to do? This is crazy.” You know, I couldn’t believe it. I was like, “Wow.”

Out here? In Brooklyn?

Buckshot

In Brooklyn. It was like, uh, you do something for the park, they had a little… Take Back The Park, that was the name, and they got us a performance. And for some reason, after that day, it was just something in my chest you know, we kinda, we need to focus a little bit more on the MCing. I kinda felt like we was good, but I was always studying other people, always studying, that’s my thing. And I’m like, we’re good, but we could be better. And one of the things we kinda got a roadblock in is we got, all of us got talent, but we put too much in the bag. Me and 5 was dancers, E was MCing at the time.

Evil Dee

I was the worst MC ever, let it be known. I was the worst, and I can admit that. I don’t care what anybody says, I was the worst.

Buckshot

We called him Evil Dee, the master of gibberish.

Evil Dee

Yo, first of all, let me explain. As a matter of fact, if you look on YouTube, this guy right here posted something too. Posted me rhyming, too, but you have to really look for it, though. I was the worst MC. Unlike a lot of MCs that are wack, I knew I was wack, and I knew I had to quit, you know what I’m saying. I said, “I ain’t gonna rhyme no more, I’m just gonna DJ.” I would yell on the mic, that’s about it.

Buckshot

And there was a lot of pressure. Don’t get it twisted, man, there was a lot of pressure.

5ft

We went through a lot of rides, we did a lot, we was hustling, trying to get equipment, someone was always trying to get the next piece of equipment that was coming out. It was just working like, you know, we really hustled, you know what I’m saying, and bustled, to even have a product like that, you know what I’m saying, and that’s crazy, man, we paid a lot of dues, man. Someone was running up and working for, doing an internship at labels.

Buckshot

I was the intern for Soul/MCA Records, and at the same time I was interning, right after interning for Soul/MCA Records, and I’d get, it’s so funny that I’m on stage with Kane tonight, because um, I actually worked on the Juice soundtrack, when Kane was on Juice, and I worked on that soundtrack when I was an intern.

That was the Bomb Squad’s label through MCA at the time.

Evil Dee

Here’s the funny thing. He worked, he was interning at the label, Mr Walt finagled the promotion for the Juice joint, he finagled it so that we was the New York promotion reps for the Juice movie.

Buckshot

Yo, they had about 5000, well not 5000, but it seemed like 5000 boxes of Juice stuff everywhere.

Evil Dee

Juice T-shirts, we had Juice hats, stickers, records, cassettes…

Buckshot

And no disrespect Juice, I’m sorry, but I always had to hustle it at the time, but I also was like, “Wow, how could I actually like, stack up some of this Juice stuff and sell it like a record store.”

Evil Dee

Hey, I’ll say it right now, yo. We was promoting the Juice soundtrack, and we was selling them, we was promoting everything at the front door, and selling them at the back door. I’m on the hustle! That’s how we learned how to promote records today!

5ft

We was on it back then, back then, that was our first experience even involving gentlemen like, having control on the distributing and finagling and, being involved with the business side of it.

So, this was all built before you guys got your break to do your first single. Tell us a story about how that happened, how you met the person who ended up connecting you with Nervous. You guys performed right, at an industry thing?

5ft

Right, we did a performance, promoting Maria Davis, and it was part of the DNA talent search or some showcase they was having. We was actually about to walk out the door because it seemed like they wasn’t actually gonna put us on stage, like the time was running down. So, we put on our coats, bookbags, knapsacks, and was getting ready to walk out the door, but Maria stopped and said, “Just give me five minutes”, and she let us go on and we did our thing. And, Chuck Chillout was in the crowd, and he had approached us on the way outside and told us, you know, “I’m feeling y’all, you’re doing your thing, y’all did that thing. We got a situation. Give me a call, you know what I’m saying.” So, he gave his number to Buck, then Buck ended up calling him. You know, they connected up, we ended up meeting him and going with Nervous. You know, Nervous, part of Sam, Michael Weiss, in front of Michael Weiss we’d perform. We performed the spot, I said that was our demo. You know what I’m saying, that was our demo. No demo, we got no demo.

Lecture: Black Moon (RBMA World Tour 2011) from Red Bull Music Academy on Vimeo.

Evil Dee

We had a demo made, but that particular meeting, it had nothing to do with the demo, it had all to do with performance. We gave the demo, you know I sent the demo out to everybody, and you got the rejection letter of, you know, “Yo, this is hot, but it’s not what we’re looking for.” And it’s funny, because I still got the rejection letters form like, Chemistry Records, Warner Bros. The only two labels I did not give the record to was Profile and Def Jam, and Imma tell you why. Profile, Funkmaster Flex was the A&R, and I didn’t want him to think that I was using our friendship to get a record deal. And at Def Jam, Bobbito was the A&R, and the same thing, I didn’t want him to think I was using his friendship to get a deal. Now the funny thing was, Serch was at Wild Pitch and you know I didn’t give Wild a pinch hit either, and when the record came out, Stu Fine and Serch was like, “Yo, what the fuck! You ain’t going to give this to us, what’s wrong with you!?” And like, it’s everybody who I didn’t give the demo to was mad at me, and everyone who fronted on the demo was mad at theyself.

Buckshot

Yep, yep, we walked in and he said, sitting right from that point of view you guys are at, and I’m Michael Weiss and I’m sitting here like this. And he said, um, “Let me see what you got.” And I looked at 5, and we looked at each other, and he said, “Y’all ready?” And I said this is how it’s going to go down, or it’s never going to go. And we said let’s do it. BOMB! And we did our thing, and then after that it was like, “BOMB! What you think?” And he was like, “I loved it.” And we walked out of there like this [mimes his heart beating fast]. I don’t believe this.

5ft

Like we did it, all the blood, sweat and tears. You know what I’m saying. Struggling, trying to make things happen, or dealing with being in the street, and not being caught up in the drama. Not being a statistic and not being able to achieve everything. And that’s why that album means a lot to me, because I know all the work, prior to the actualisation of that cd, and the things that we had to go through, and the things that we sacrificed, to go through, to make that happen.

Buckshot

We wrote the record at Chuck Chillout’s house. In the BX. And we were sitting and Chuck Chillout had like a one half of a bedroom or something, it was just real crazy out at this place, cuz we was real tucked in, me and 5 was on the floor, and Chuck Chillout was in the kitchen cooking burgers and he’s like, “Y’all want some burgers?” and we’re like, “Nah, we’re good, we alright.” And he’s like, “You guys done yet?” and we’re like, “Nah, we’ll be done in a few days.” And I’m like, “Damn”, you know, you know what I’m saying, I’m sitting there and next thing you know I got the lyrics, and we write, we wrote this joint at Chuck Chillout’s house.

You recorded it at Such-a-Sound, in Brooklyn, Studios, no longer here.

Evil Dee

Yeah, Such-a-Sound Studio, and Imma tell you something about this record that nobody knows. First of all, they didn’t have a setup for the turntables, so I did the cuts sitting on the floor, that’s number one. Number two, me and the engineer, Schlomo, got into a big argument every time, because I wanted the record to sound one way, he was trying to take over my record, so he just said just like this, “Oh you think you know everything? Mix the record yourself.” So that was the first record I ever mixed myself in the studio, and I did the mixing, I set all the levels, you know, that was my first engineering job in a professional studio. And you have the results on the album right now.
Oh, let me put you up on something. Also, when I was making this album, I was not digging for records the way that I dig for records now. I was digging for records in my brother’s collection. What we would do is my brother would go to work. Me, Buck, and 5 would go into his apartment, do what we gonna do, make beats, do what we gonna do, and then fix everything back and go sit on the steps, so when my brother walks in he sees I’m sitting on the steps.

5ft

Every time!

Evil Dee

So every record I sampled on this at the time, I stole from my brother’s collection.

Could you explain also what Walt’s job was at the time too, because that was really important in terms of you know, you guys knowing people in the business. I mean, people must be wondering, “Oh, you know Q-Tip, you knew Funkmaster Flex, you knew all these people before you even got a record out.” How did you guys know some of these folks, especially out in Queens.

Evil Dee

Well, what happened was, my brother Mr. Walt worked at the Music Factory in Jamaica, Queens. Now, the Music Factory in Jamaica, Queens is very important because everybody in hip hop somehow ended up at that store, especially Queens hip hop artists. My brother sold Jam Master Jay, God rest the dead, his turntables. He sold LL his radio. He sold Large Professor his first breakbeat he ever bought. My brother sold records to De La, to Public Enemy. As a matter of fact, he sold records to Q-Tip, Phife and all of them. Q-Tip liked my brother so much he made a record called “The What”, and on that record he said, “What’s the Music Factory without Mr. Walt?” And that’s how my brother got his name, Mr. Walt. My brother, you know, was so influential at the time, when it came to music, like Ed Lover used to hang out in the store with him. Flavor Flav like, my brother would come home every day with pictures with mad artists. Remember that?

5ft

He’d be hating, you’d get so mad he wouldn’t want to take us to the bar. He got the pictures with Salt n Pepa…

Evil Dee

Here’s a funny story. My brother would do these in-stores. It was an in-store with Ice-T and Big Daddy Kane, come to think about it, at the time I was mad skinny. My brother was like, “You’re security.” And it was like, yo, but that’s what my brother would do. My brother would have all these artists come through to his store, and he knew everybody.