Interview: Jean Grae on Her Sitcom and Lounge Covers of Mos Def Songs

Jean Grae is sitting at the end of a bar in the Bushwick neighborhood of Brooklyn, sipping on an apple juice. She’s just returned from a trip to South Africa. “While I was there I realized that I really miss being able to smoke in bars,” explains the rapper who grew up inside the fabled Chelsea Hotel and has been steadily releasing music projects for over a decade now. “It seems like so long since you’ve been able to do that in New York.”

As Jean Grae recalls her overseas smoke session, it brings to mind a scene from an episode of the self-produced, written and directed sitcom, Life with Jeannie. While sitting in a room in her new apartment, Jean – who plays herself in the show – engages in a rant-turned-explanation about why her friend, Jada, is not allowed to smoke inside.

Listening back to Jean Grae’s music, the idea of the rapper transitioning into a comedy writer seems a natural one. Recently, she’s also begun to move away from performing traditional hip hop shows in favor of live events that are more along the lines of a variety show – a chance for fans to experience up close the personality she delivers through her ever-entertaining Twitter and Instagram accounts.

Before heading off to a friend’s house to endure “having to drink a lot of whiskey” the rest of the evening, I spoke to Jean about the links between comedy in music and writing, and the limits about what is and isn’t fair game when it comes to turning personal situations into public entertainment.

When you base a scene in Life with Jeannie on something in real life, do you run it by anyone it’s inspired by?

Well, I heard that someone may have been upset about me choosing to use something that happened in the last episode, but they are a fan of my music as well and my music has always been based on real people. Where did you think those songs came from? If you like the songs, you can’t not like [the sitcom] as it’s exactly the same thing. I’m always honest to people – I’m a writer so it’s probably going to make its way in the songs and it’s kinda on you to have the responsibility to be a better person. If you don’t do shitty things, you’re not gonna get a shitty song. So the sitcom doesn’t feel any different.

Have you found that writing the sitcom takes longer than writing songs?

No – I don’t do a lot of revision. I write the sitcom as I write my albums. Maybe I shouldn’t, but everything is kinda happening in real time; this entire season is really happening in real time. I know what’s happening ‘cause it’s in my head and I know what’s coming, but I like the fact that people are like, “Life with Jeannie is a great improv show!” I’m like, “No, no it isn’t, I wrote this – here’s 30 pages of a script!”

How long has the idea to write a sitcom been in your head?

Since I was like four years-old. I always wanted my own show. In grade school I was always a really big fan of all the sitcoms, everything, and I just wanted my own show even though clearly it wouldn’t have been a fun show. Then later on in life people would call just being around me Life with Jeannie, and I was like that’s a really good name for a show. People who weren’t around me were telling me I should do a reality show but I was like, “Absolutely not.” It’s probably way more boring than you think it is, like it’s probably me going to Home Depot. Although those are fun trips, I’m not reality show material. I think there was a show and they were like, “Can we just talk to you like it’s an interview and it will be natural?” I was like, “I promise you, what you’re looking for is people who can be in there and kinda ignite a fight or incite some drama.”

There is no drama during your Home Depot trips?

Yeah, it’s not gonna happen. I’m not the droid that you’re looking for.

Has the rise of Twitter and the access it can give fans to your life helped spark things like the sitcom? Or even those shows you’ve been performing recently that are more along the lines of An Evening with Jean Grae rather than straight-up rap gigs?

No. No, no, no. Why would you even say that? Why would you say such a ridiculous thing? [pauses] But yes, without those things I think I would still have been in a weird box that someone decided I should be in – like some sort of femcee and some description that had nothing to do with me.

A backpack and high heels.

Right! It’s like the other day someone said Jean Grae was a tree-hugging hipster. I was like, “Really, why? Where the fuck would you get that from?” So absolutely, Twitter has changed a lot of my networking and the gigs I get and being able to get a transition from not necessarily doing something I didn’t want to do, but it was like I was in the wrong school for the wrong time: I’m not supposed to be here, I’m supposed to go to the other school, I can go to both schools if you want me to but I really want to go there. And I don’t think that would be possible without social media and technology.

Is there any link between the way you write punchlines for a rap song and the way you write jokes for Life with Jeannie?

I don’t know if I think of it in terms of writing punchlines when I rap – I definitely go for what makes me laugh and usually there’s kinda a punchline before the punchline, so where I would find the joke would be a lot different than where it lands for someone else. I always try and do that and there’s a lot of that in my songs. Script-wise, it’s been an interesting transition for me. I like to think it’s been challenging and a way to develop a different type of writing but I still like to land things in different places in the script.

Do you ever bounce between including things in a song or in the sitcom?

Yes, there were some comments that I made in the first episode that would have ended up in a song otherwise. I was close to writing another song about the relationship, but I was like, “No, you don’t get another song. You already have too many.”

Is there a quota on how many songs you can write about one person?

I think I was at like nine songs? Then I was like, fuck it, I don’t want to do this anymore. The last one I wrote about that person was on Jeannie called “So Glad It’s Over.” I’m done with writing the songs. Even two is a lot.

Do you find you bring a different type of humor to songs as opposed to sitcoms? The track “37” on Jeannie has you impersonating a therapist’s voice at the end and it’s funny, but it also makes the listener feel a bit like shit.

Haha, yeah.

Humor in music often seems more bittersweet than on a TV show.

It’s actually strangely been that the first episodes of the sitcom have been really upbeat but it’s kind of almost me tricking people. I haven’t really started going into character development – especially with the cartoon episode [number three] which didn’t do any of that – and people might think the show is not going to be heavy. [pauses] I don’t even remember what the fuckin’ question was now.

I was asking whether humor in rap songs comes off as more self-deprecating or bittersweet – like with something like the Pharcyde – whereas sitcoms might be a little more upbeat.

I think so, and I think for me it’s played like that so far. But there are shots I will be taking at myself, but then some of the new episodes are really heavy and some are not. It’s not easy for me to be continuously optimistic and happy and embrace a ha-ha-ha level of funny – I can’t do that all of the time. I feel it’s like men on the street with their catcalls who think they are smart and always smiling. Why? Why would that make you smile? Why would you think that? What the fuck is wrong with you [that] you go around smiling all the time? I know that especially with the last episode, it was really funny in a different way.

When you made the cartoon episode, were you worried that people might gravitate towards the cartoon format more?

Yeah, I think I may be reaching a line where I have to pull that the fuck back now.

If it turned out people seemed to prefer a certain style of humor in the sitcom, would you take that on board?

No, ‘cause they’re gonna like what I’m giving them. It’s the same way I feel about my performances with songs: I do the songs I like and you have to enjoy the show. It’s not like I have fuckin’ smash hits that sold millions of copies. I don’t really have to perform anything. It’s kinda the same thing with the show – I want to talk about the things I want to talk about.

Lately you seem to be doing less traditional music shows.

Yeah, like The White Hot Room at Union Hall is a one-on-one talk show. It’s myself and a guest and the audience, and we basically have a conversation.

Have you found it harder to win over a comedy crowd than a rap crowd?

Neither really – I would rather have an audience that doesn’t know me. I like working the crowd; I like working on stage and I like winning them over. I would rather the crowd have no idea who I am. I just got through with Hannibal Buress for a couple of shows. I would come out and I’d be like, “I’m sorry that this is not the comedy portion of the show and I’m sorry that you came for the comedy show and you thought you were gonna sit down for the whole show but I can’t have you do that ‘cause that looks crazy so now you have to stand and I’m sorry I’m asking you to be active ‘cause I don’t like going to shows to be active but it’s really for me to feel comfortable.”

You have your patter all ready to go.

Yep! “Let’s not make it difficult. You can’t sit down, I’m gonna have to be here so let’s have a good time.” I would rather work different crowds and different rooms and see what works. It’s kinda like marketing – actually it is like marketing research some of the time – and I’m getting to test out new everything, new banter, what works in this city or this type of room.

What’s the worst crowd you’ve experienced in a comedy setting?

Well, I didn’t feel it bombed because I thought it was hilarious, but Hannibal was doing a Knitting Factory show and he wanted a musical guest and he asked me to suggest some. I suggested some people and I think they were out of town and I was like, “Well, alternatively I can bring my band. You know, my new band that I just made up right now. We can do lounge versions of Mos Def songs.” He was like “Yeah, let’s do that.” I have never cleared a room so fast.

It was packed and about halfway through “Boogie Man” people were just leaving. It was myself and my friend Kwame [Brandt-Pierce] on the keyboard and we don’t stop; my friends are at the front crying with laughter but people are leaving so fast. We get through both of our songs and there are maybe just ten people left in the room. Hannibal is not coming back on stage. So then I went on and did some jokes about cocaine for another five minutes. [pauses] We were also called... Let me find the flyer for you [searches through iPhone pictures]. I have to tell you, I thought it was hilarious. We just played for the wrong audience – you have to have a crowd that’s gonna appreciate you doing only lounge-jazz versions of Mos Def songs.

Which Mos Def songs did you perform?

We did “Boogie Man” and we did “Umi Says.” We thought they were both amazing but to each his own... [finds the flyer] We were called I Don’t Know Maybe.

Has Hannibal ever given you any advice on telling jokes? Or is that something fans just imagine – that artists and comedians sit around talking about the details of their material?

Yeah, no, I think what does happen with everybody in general is that everybody picks up on the conversation and you make it into certain things. I think that happens when you have a bunch of creative people around you, even if you’re in situations that are not necessarily funny to everyone.

So are there any rap songs that you’d consider to be openly funny?

All of my love songs. There’s people that have good comedic timing.

Who comes to mind?

Danny Brown. I had a long conversation with him about this a little while ago. Someone called him a punchline rapper and he said he couldn’t see that. I told him I felt that he probably wanted to be a stand-up comedian at one point. He was like, “Absolutely.” He said he was really gutted when he didn’t get into comedy school. I brought him a George Carlin book and told him I thought he’d enjoy it. I think there’s a lot of rappers that are rapping the same way with the timing and the phrasing but it’s not like haha funny, you know? But, wow, is this how long it’s been since I listened to rap? I don’t know any rappers!

A lot of the Fresh Prince’s early songs come to mind, like the Mike Tyson one.

Yeah, “I Think I Can Beat Mike Tyson” was a great song. But in hip hop there’s sometimes this thing where you don’t want it to be a comedy song ‘cause the rapper doesn’t want to you laugh at them, even if it’s not necessarily laughing at them. There was definitely a time in rap when that was considered soft, like don’t fuckin’ make that. But it makes you a pussy if you’re making people laugh? Come on, what’s wrong with you if you think that way? I like telling jokes.

Have you ever attempted to make an openly funny song?

Yeah.

Did you release it?

Yes. Again, I also think it was a relationship song so I did put it out. It was funny in a real-life way. I was like, “That was hilarious!” I had a lot of guns and sound-effects and it was funny as fuck. But I’ve never not had a lot of humor in my music. Generally my songs contain a lot of jokes, even if they’re kinda dark.

Do you have a vault of punchlines ready to go for your songs?

No, I never have anything prepared! I don’t have anything planned ever so, no. Even going back to Life with Jeannie with episode two, I was asking my friends if they would object if I was writing the show the same way I write my songs: “I’m gonna do what I want but how do you feel about writing about this relationship in real-time, so this is happening right now?” Of course, everyone was like, “Don’t do it!” so I took that to mean I should.